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Rose1222
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #15 on: Sep 5th, 2005, 10:45am »

So someone explain to me exactly why dating is so wrong? And can anyone seriously assert that there is absolutely nothing that can possibly be or go wrong with arranged marriages?

Such extremeness is what causes problems in the world. Live and let live.

And it's fine if you may think that dating is wrong - that's your belief and it happens to be different from mine. I just hope that when (or if) you do have children, that you would be able to communicate with them openly and explain to them why you believe dating is wrong rather than strictly prohibit it w/o any discussion.
« Last Edit: Sep 5th, 2005, 4:47pm by Vijay Mehta » User IP Logged

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xx Dating right or wrong?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 5th, 2005, 4:57pm »

It seems that once again the discussion turns personal. I have following views on the subject of dating.

It does not matter what some Brahmin is able to quote, or what is said in our religious books about dating. The kids who are at that age group are not likely to go to some Brahmin and ask, and even if they did, that would not solve the problem – libido is far stronger than a lecture.

It does not matter if Rose dates or not. I happen to have personally talked to Rose for hundred of hours and must admit that she has more moral and ethical values than more then 70 percent of our youth of her age. Our discussion should aim to explore possible solutions or alternatives to the dating as practiced to day.

Weather we approve it or not, dating is very prevalent in our youth and more than 50 percent by the age of 16 are doing it but parents do not know. What parents do not know won’t hurt them – they think.

While some may argue that dating is bad, we need to recognize that what makes it worse is our denial to talk about it and may be find possible alternatives to it.

It is a myth that when a student dates he or she is not going to be able to maintain academic achievements.

Anyone that thinks that we can expect our youth to not date is living in a la la land and needs to have his or head examined. Human physiology tells us that it is normal to have strong attraction to opposite sex, after all that is what ovarian or testicular hormones are supposed to do.

What is wrong is that we as a community have been in a state of denial on this issue. Our youth have learned to go ahead and do it under ground. Since it is done underground, they have no support when they need help.

We have created a group of young people who are handicapped when it comes to relating to opposite sex. Underground dating has allowed them to go to physical union way before mental and spiritual union.
« Last Edit: Sep 5th, 2005, 5:03pm by Vijay Mehta » User IP Logged

Greatest threat to Hindu religion comes from Dhongi Baba - Dada - Didi - Swami etc.
SS
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #17 on: Sep 14th, 2005, 1:16pm »

Ekta, you suggest asking a brahmin priest. They too are merely people, with their own biases. Unless you read religious texts in their original language, you are only getting an interpretation. An interpretation that cannot be free from personal/societal bias.

I too agree with Rose that there is nothing wrong with dating. As long as it is done responsibly and with maturity. You learn invaluable lessons about what you want in a spouse, how to communicate with someone, compromise, etc. People learn through experience, and dating is just one of many. Granted, often people begin dating too young - when they are too immature to truly understand the consequences of their actions (that is the only problem I see with dating).

People seem to assume that this is phenomena associated with living/growing up in America. It is not. I have friends who grew up here, and grew up abroad. There is no difference. In fact, I know more people who grew up in South Asia who are not only dating but having sex.

We have to be realistic. Our youth are dating, having sex, etc. All we can do is educate them, and provide them with the necessary information for them to make intelligent, mature and well-thought out decisions regarding their lives. Sometimes the greatest lesson parents can give their children is to let them make their own mistakes.
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Open your Eyes
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #18 on: Sep 14th, 2005, 1:31pm »

Anonymous79,

You replied to Rose's intelligent and thoughtful remark by making personal attacks against someone whom you don't know. That is very immature for someone of "your generation."

Regardless of how much you've studied "desi culture" remember that you are and always will be an outsider. Keeping this in mind, there are experiences that we, as young desi adults, have that you are not privy to. There are nuances of the cultue only understood by those who live it every day. Studying a culture and living it are not one and the same. Your base generalizations regarding our youth and their lack of morality and such are unnecessary. And they are just mere generalizations. We can make generalizations about anyone based on a small group, but that proves to be a useless waste of time.

You speak of all of these problems as if they only exist in the desi community. Are you saying that Filipino youth don't party, date, drink, dress provacatively? Maybe instead of taking our youth you should take the time to realize that and overindulgence in these problems are part of what's wrong with society as a whole, and it's not limited to one group or another.

In the future, I suggest that you approach with respect responses to individuals regarding their cultures, one which you are not a part of.

When it comes to dating (specially our daughters) we Desi people have got it totally wrong.

Dating is not as bad as dating underground.
Dating is not as bad as sex without commitment.
Dating is not as bad as emotionally, physically or sexually abuse relationships.
Dating does not automatically mean sex.

Please do not ask some Brahmin priests about these issues. We need to ask our kids who are living this life everyday and facing the challenges. It would be great if our Brahmin priests practised what they preach!

I personally know so many young men and women who date very responsibly. Some of them have enough will power to wait till 'after marriage', even though some aunties may not believe it.

The answer to Dating quagmire is not going to be found in some holy books or from some priests but we have to confront reality. We have to resolve to do whatever it takes to solve this problem. Every thing is on table. We the parents are willing to listen and bring some rationality to this situation.

Currently, while we the parents live in a la la land and think that our kids are all pure and wonderful. While so many of they are busy "hooking up" or "making out" which translated in plain english means casual sexual encounters without any commitment. - Vijay Uncle
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2005, 2:58pm by Vijay Mehta » User IP Logged

zpakistarz
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #19 on: Sep 16th, 2005, 04:23am »

It's ok to date if you are allowed to and mature, but if you're not allowed too than it's wrong.
Simple as that!!!

How could one say it's ok, when you're just lying behind to your family and anyone else just to prevent getting caught? It may be ok to you,but not ok for your family. That's not ok.

What we all should be saying than everyone has their own rules and beliefs, instead of saying it's not or it is right. You can't bash either one person or other group. Majority are going to say it's alright and you're are going to say to the other people who don't beleive in it Get a life or stop judging us or we live in modern time.

It is it wrong if they life according to their belief in religion in a strict manner? You got to give credit to those who don't date or don't beleive in it, cause face it Dr. Mehta has said that many do go "underground".
Give mad props to the ones who don't date too, that's isnt easy to do.
Cause if it was, we all be without gf or bf's.

Be respectful to them too that they keep their hormones from breaking their rules of the house and religion. I mean how many actually do live by that, not many.

So don't bash them cause it's tough not to date, til your ready to date like for a partner or something. It's not an easy thing to do to not get influenced.
I give alot of credit for that.

For the people that date, I'm sure you people are like much older and are ones who probably dating to find a spouse the ones here on this site. That's I don't find wrong either.

We got to all remember we live very differently. Some folks let their children date and have no problem. Many do and it all depends on you, your family, and what you beleive. Bottom line. I'm biracial I'm half German and have Pakistani. I have learned through my German or "American " side about dating and it's practiced by majority of us Americans. But's a Desi lifesyle is opposite rules to American lifestyle. I just think that there's more shift to the American lifetstyle that many Desi want to live by than the traditional. I just think we need to balance in the middle that makes us and our folk happy.

I don't date, but through learning American experience , especially my life I really don't find American lifestyle as awesome or way to go to live by because my mom and dad divorced. My dad got remained to a Irish/French lady. and my mom got remarried in Pakistan.

I think Desi kids or youth Over think that American culture or lifestyle is really awesome, I think because majority are living the Desi life and never been to an American home or practice American lifestyles.
So, how feel if your parents divorced or your father has more children with the second wife and he expects you to call them bros and sis. Put this situation in a Desi Household, How would you feel?

I don't think you would like it either.

You're going to face the good and bad of American lifesyle. I wished my parents didn't live more to american way of life. Having step brothers and sister or half bros and sis and all is just too complicated or painful what we kids go through. We sometimes wonder when we will have stability in our lives than these changes.

I think it's going to be a valuble experience for the people who try to balance thier lives and see which
what works for them and what doesn't for the pure Desi people.
Don't think American culture is all that great, cause if it was for me, my parents wouldnt have divorced and my siblings and I wouldnt be wondering when we can see our other parent for visitation.
Desi culture is a great culture, but we much also take things that work or dont work and somehow live in peace with that.

So I just think all this is about experimenting American lifesyle with Desi and trying to find a balance.
Hey, dont be surprised if you follow more of the american that you won't get a divorce or file for custody even if your spouse is Full Desi.
I just think if your going to try american practices do realise that "my other have of culture" does got serious issues and all. So you may want to think what you want to preactice or don't.

Dating is not wrong or right, it's by what you and your family feel.

Please note that if you register with the site you can edit your own posts. - Vijay Uncle


« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2005, 10:04am by Vijay Mehta » User IP Logged

Rose1222
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #20 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 9:17pm »

Hi ZPak,

Here are some issues that I saw in your response:


It's ok to date if you are allowed to and mature, but if you're not allowed too than it's wrong.
Simple as that!!!

How would you define 'mature?' What does 'allowed to date' mean? What if the teen is unsure b/c the parents have never discussed the topic?

How could one say it's ok, when you're just lying behind to your family and anyone else just to prevent getting caught? It may be ok to you,but not ok for your family. That's not ok.

I think you are trying to assert that even if dating is right, lying to your family is far worse. And I agree - it is wrong to lie to family members who care about you. Isn't it at least equally wrong for family members to automatically disapprove of one's wishes w/o any thought or discussion? What choice is that person left with except to make a decision between his wishes and pleasing seemingly unreasonable family members?

What we all should be saying than everyone has their own rules and beliefs, instead of saying it's not or it is right. You can't bash either one person or other group. Majority are going to say it's alright and you're are going to say to the other people who don't beleive in it Get a life or stop judging us or we live in modern time.

Agreed. Dating is personal decision, but teens can make much better decisions if they have their parent's guidance, understanding and support. Non-desi teens have at least some freedom to be able to introduce their bf/gf to their parents so at least the parents know who their teen is hanging out with. Don't desi teens deserve the same freedom, understanding, guidance and support from their parents?

. . . . . .

Dating is not wrong or right, it's by what you and your family feel.

What if the individual and the family have different opinions regarding dating? Whose opinion / choice trumps the other?

My point is that this issue is much more complicated than what it seems. There are a lot of gray areas. While being a part of a step-family and dealing with divorced parents can be painful, think of how it has molded your character and helped you understand people and the world so much better than others. We just cannot make bright-line rules about people, families and beliefs - we need to look at each case with a fresh set of eyes and an open mind.
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zpakistarz
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #21 on: Sep 30th, 2005, 12:51pm »

Thank U Rose for the response...
yes, it is complicated issue....
What u said is true and raised some good questions....
I leave the answers from my response to the people to read and to fill in themselves...there isnt a right or wrong answer for all....
i am glad u are brave and had the courage to speak to ur parents about dating....as a teen...or young adult...
the points u made showed u took those steps to educate ur parents....
it's not easy that u told ur parents u were dating....
but u did the right thing to acknowledge from wat i see....on ur advice to others....
it will def help other others as well....

im sure ur parents are proud of a daughter that has courage and speaks her mind...
smiley

tgc
zeena
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ABCD girl
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xx Are you kidding me?
« Reply #22 on: Oct 4th, 2005, 8:14pm »

This is crazy!!

YES, desi kids should date RESPONSIBLY and party RESPONSIBLY once they are mentally and emotionally mature enough (hopefully by late college age!).

I grew up in an area without any desi kids my age. I had no interaction with desis. No desi parties...nada. I never had a single indian friend until I was in my late 20's.I was not fortunate to have that opportunity.
If you don't party, date and meet other desis... I think the probability of you meeting someone desi to live happily ever after with is ZERO.

You can't possibly expect desi kids not to date or party and then magically meet someone once they hit a certain age and suddenly get married.
It's good to party and date so you can socialize with other desis and form networks, friends and just be young! It's just that you need to do it responsibly (and with some class) so nothing comes back to haunt you later in life.

And just because you go to parties does not make you a thug or very *friendly* person
or a "bad" person. I know lots of desis who party and date with class, and are very traditional in their morals and overall.

If I ever get married I will make sure to teach my kids to make good decisions and then send them out to party and date to their heart's content - as long as they make straight A's and end up with a medical, law or engineering degree, of course wink

So, if no A's no dating or no parties, right?? -vijayuncle
« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2005, 8:35pm by Vijay Mehta » User IP Logged

ABCD Guy
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #23 on: Nov 5th, 2005, 3:28pm »

I agree with ABCD girl

- ABCD guy
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Blak LIon
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xx The Truth about Desis in North America
« Reply #24 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 1:36pm »

As an African-American, I watched the success of the Desis along with some of the other non-Desi Asians and wondered what separated them from African-Americans as well as Latin Americans. While I don not have the complete answer, I DO know that part of it will not ultimately work to the advantage of Desis.
The fact is that Desis that aren't from here are very strange to everyone else. But what really does in American-born Desis is the hypocrisy of their migrant parents. Honestly, they have bought into the myth of white supremacy more than many whites have. While white women are chasing down Black men with such vigor that Black women have to now compete with them for a Black man, Desi parents are scared crapless of their daughters running off with a Desi that is too dark, much less one of African origin. And that is why they bought into the idea of associating success with foreign (European and American) education.
So to the children, I would say this... know and appreciate your history, and even the language of your parents. But be quick to leave behind their bad habits and to keep their good ones. Otherwise, you will not need to worry about having American friends for long, or friends from any where else for that matter. Your parents are doting and attentive, and that is a good trait. They are also seen by non-Desis as rude, weak, money-hungry, racially biased, and quick to compromise a principle for an advantage, which are disgusting traits to anyone including Desis.
The happiness of your own children is just as important as your material success.
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nrs
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #25 on: Sep 23rd, 2006, 4:58pm »

The thing with these people in the party scene, many feel that they are getting away from everything and nothing bad can happen to them. I know that underage drinkers and binge drinkers are present, but have they ever thought that they might be caught be police or get involved in alcoholism and drunk driving accident. The thing that makes me angry is that Desi, we think we are better than the other races and that nothing better can happen to us. I dont care if many Desi are successful doctors, lawyers, etc. Our culture is sinking and we are facing serious issues in life. When you see now many of our people getting into a divorce , it is a Big Time Wake Up call to Us that we are no different or better than a white, black, or spanish person and that we can also face problems of divorce, jail, fights in families, etc.

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nrs
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xx Re: is Your Daughter/Son In These Pictures
« Reply #26 on: Oct 3rd, 2006, 8:30pm »

the day...when these people in the photos are caught drunk driving...or minor/binge drinking....or a rape reported....then you will know whose sons and daughters they are.....
majority ppl are doing underground...and many parents say its not their children but other children....but seeing the growing number....bet yourself that someone you know...is doing underground....
desi youths underground activities will get exposed....and that's when many of their familes will be shocked and angry....and truth finally revealed...

let's be honest....desi rapists getting away and raping more daughters.....
enough is enough....
its about time...that bad behavior get exposed...and those involved punished.....

the day...when these rapists....or binge drinkers...go to jail.....desi people will realise that they are no different than black, white, other races...when it comes to law....and social problems
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